Runoff Fuel Testing

[SOseth]

I offer this link for a discussion about this.

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthr ... post185035

SteveO

[hardingfv32-1]

I wonder how secure the properties of the fuel tracer used for the Runoff's is?

SCCA is stating confidence in both the technology and procedures being used to test fuel at the Runoffs in private communications. I wonder how these procedures were modified from the norm. Normal testing procedures are not required to detect the expense LEGAL fuels. Depending on the tracer only could be risky.

Brian

[brian]

I talked to Terry Ozmand and she promised to look into this issue and confirm that Sunoco is delivering fuel with the tracers. My understanding is with the tracers intact, there's now way to dilute the fuel with anything and not get caught. It's the procedure with NASCAR and if it works with their million dollar cheaters, it should work with ours.

I know the C44 is legal for SCCA and I also know that there were trailers full of it over Labor Day at Heartland. Shame on you folks, may the fleas of a thousand camels infect your shorts.

[VORT94]

I would not be so sure. If a guy used CAM2 last year and was found legal, the tracer identification was either not used or did not work. The tracer will have to be used and have to be kept confidential until the last day before qualifying. Even then the C-44 or whatever could be modified to pass SCCA tech for the last days of qualifying and or the race. If the rumors are true that all you have to do is add some track fuel to the "race" fuel then we are S.O.L.

[hardingfv32-1]

After a little research on the subject of Fuel Markers, I have more confidence in the SCCA test program. Fuel marking is a very well developed industry. All most half of the world fuel supply has markers in it. Authentix is a major supplier that provides a handheld tester that is easy to use. These systems can detect fuel dilution/blending. As long as someone does not get lazy these systems will work fine for our needs.

Brian

[brian]

Glad to hear that Brian. That's what the plan with Sunoco included when the track fuel program started. Here's hoping that Sunoco is still delivering fuel with markers.

[Dave Gomberg]

Glad to hear that Brian. That's what the plan with Sunoco included when the track fuel program started. Here's hoping that Sunoco is still delivering fuel with markers.

Yes, Sunoco delivers the fuel with tracers. Further, they are unique for the Runoffs. And, yes, we have the instrument to read the tracers. If you read the Runoffs Supps (9.14), you will see that there are special Runoffs fuel testing procedures. Ask for a copy at Tech.

Dave

[brian]

Thanks Dave for "coming out" and letting us know what's happening. I appreciate the dangers of going public. There have been consistant quotes from last year's tech folks regarding unsuccessful testing and that's really "fueled" these rumors. Hope to chat at the Runoffs.

[hardingfv32-1]

I disagree with the dangers of going public. I think this just shows a lack of knowledge about how the marker systems work and how robust they are. Organized crime groups around the world know how these marker systems work but they still are not able to defeat them. As an example: You know how 128 bit encryption works, but can you (non computer geek) crack it? As a organization, we can make better decisions from a base of strong knowledge. (Iraq is a VERY good example)

There are questions about dilution accuracy. I have a question about the fuel supply:

If the fuel is supplied with a Runoff only marker, what happens to the fuel already at the track? Is it drained first? What are the chances of that happing?

Brian

[DanRemmers]

...what happens to the fuel already at the track? Is it drained first? What are the chances of that happing?
Brian

I assume that the marked fuel would be delivered to the track and offloaded into an existing underground tank that will have some amount of unmarked fuel already inside. The resulting control mixture could be tested for marker concentration before dispensing--assuming the test can be done on-site and is more than just a pass/fail.

Then any testing from competitors' fuel cells would be compared to that control. The accuracy of the test would determine how far from the control you can be and still be considered legal. If you knew the test was only accurate to +/- 10%, then you could add 10% of nitromakitgofast and still be legal.

[nick_fv71]

The resulting control mixture could be tested for marker concentration before dispensing

I don't think this would work very well--you can't assume that the fuel would be well-mixed during the test nor could you assume that it stay well-mixed, if it ever were, during the whole event.

However, I saw at the Rolex race at VIR this past year that Sunoco sent a couple tanker straight trucks to the track--I'm guessing they have stringent fuel rules and that's their fix. I'm assuming that it could also be done for the runoffs (obviously requiring a bunch more trucks)