Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
Which is worse... a short box at Limerock (a long box track) or a long box at NHMS (a short box track)?
Re: Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
with a short box at limerock you will run out of pull half way down the strait, just past the start finnish line, also you will be around 7000rpm, for a long time.
with a long box at nhms you will shift less but you will lose some ground getting up the hill at turn 3. you can stay in third gear from turn 6 to the start finnish line. i think that more people run a long box at nhms than run a short box at limerock. just my opinion
with a long box at nhms you will shift less but you will lose some ground getting up the hill at turn 3. you can stay in third gear from turn 6 to the start finnish line. i think that more people run a long box at nhms than run a short box at limerock. just my opinion
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Re: Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
I'd rather have to use a shortbox at Lime Rock than a long box at NHMS. I found that finding the rhythm in driving the 2nd part of Big Bend and the esses was more difficult with the shortbox than any rpm issue on the downhill. The shift points are awkward so you have to drive a bit differently .... which you figure out after a few laps.
You're also much more likely to go to the Glen.
You're also much more likely to go to the Glen.
Greg Rice
"Happy 50th Birthday"
"Happy 50th Birthday"
Re: Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
Greg
Did you ever run out of RPM at the end of the straight with the shortbox at LRP?
Did you ever run out of RPM at the end of the straight with the shortbox at LRP?
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Re: Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
I never ran there consistantly enough to be good there but I ran a shortbox several times with out problem. I heard that Vandecar used one there. I struggled more with finding the necasary rhythm through 2-3 because of awkward shift points. Modern FV engines breath and rev better than 20 years ago. With a shortbox at Lime Rock, you may have trouble completing a pass against a good guy with a good engine with a longbox .... but that is not the same as running out of revs ... and you will climb the hill better. Twenty years ago, half the tracks were longbox tracks, now there's only a handful. The tracks did not change ... the way we tune and use our cars has.
I think a longbox is preferred at Lime Rock, but that was not the question. I think a long box at NH will affect lap times more than a shortbox at LR. Your opinion may vary or be more correct. If I lived in Boston .... and could only have one transmission, I'd have a shortbox.
I think a longbox is preferred at Lime Rock, but that was not the question. I think a long box at NH will affect lap times more than a shortbox at LR. Your opinion may vary or be more correct. If I lived in Boston .... and could only have one transmission, I'd have a shortbox.
Greg Rice
"Happy 50th Birthday"
"Happy 50th Birthday"
Re: Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
I've heard that at Limerock, the Vandecar's (aka experienced drivers , aka not me) can drive it with a short box, leave it in 4th and drive s#E^^G%F&* out of the car and do well. I've never driven NHMS with a long box, so I didn't know how bad the uphill would be.
Thanks all
Thanks all
Re: Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
I side with Greg on this one. Johnproblemchild wrote:...
With a shortbox at Lime Rock, you may have trouble completing a pass against a good guy with a good engine with a longbox .... but that is not the same as running out of revs ...
...
I think a long box at NH will affect lap times more than a shortbox at LR.
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Re: Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
Vandecar's theory (at least so I was told) was that Lime Rock was the race to the finish line and the shortbox was faster getting there on the last lap. You might get eaten alive going into Big Bend and if you don't lift you might see some big revs (6700 - 7000?), but that also depends on how fast you come down the hill. If you are running 1:03 to 1:05, the short box will probably be fine. Under 1:02 (current hot National time is in the 59's) and the longbox is probably better.Veefan wrote:I've heard that at Limerock, the Vandecar's (aka experienced drivers , aka not me) can drive it with a short box, leave it in 4th and drive s#E^^G%F&* out of the car and do well. I've never driven NHMS with a long box, so I didn't know how bad the uphill would be.
Thanks all
Now any National guys running over 7000 redline - your vote does not count
At NHMS, I did win a race with a long box, and a 1:22 third gear to boot, but it was painfull going up the hill. If you have one box, a long box with a 1:26 third should work. I think it is less stressfull on the engine than a short box.
Of course if your engine is down on power, but will pull the revs, the short box again will be better.
Now that you are confused - call Steve and ask his opinion.
ChrisZ
Re: Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
Is there no longer the option of running taller rear tires?
Seems a short box at LRP with tall tires might be a decent compromise.
Seems a short box at LRP with tall tires might be a decent compromise.
Re: Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
A quick question and then a response...
what gearbox do you have and with what gearing?
If you have single gearbox, your best option for the two tracks is a compromise using a longbox with a 1:26 3rd gear as Chris suggests. Colin Lawrence was running that combination last year and he was plenty quick at NH. Remember this is a compromise and those with track specific gearboxes will have an advantage. I am also aware of those that have run LRP with a shortbox including myself a long time ago. Dan Grace ran a shortbox there last year and won two hotly contested races but he also ran the snot out of his engine. Afterward he stated he wasn't sure if he hurt it. With the old manifolds the rpms would peak around start finish and those with longboxes would then motor past with their ability to pull rpms further down the straight. The new manifolds may have changed that a little but you still need a motor capable of some very high rpms. LRP is a momemtum track and the best lap times are done by those that can sustain maximum throttle for the longest time. My recommendation is NOT to run a shortbox at LRP.
At NHMS a longbox with 1:22 3rd gear will let you race, but it will be a disadvantage in at least two low speed corners and lengthen acceleration time onto the main straight. In regional racing conditions you can hang onto a shortbox car with a longbox but making a pass stick isn't very likely. As others have pointed out a dedicated shortbox is the best choice for NH but not always the necessary choice depending on other needs.
Jim
what gearbox do you have and with what gearing?
If you have single gearbox, your best option for the two tracks is a compromise using a longbox with a 1:26 3rd gear as Chris suggests. Colin Lawrence was running that combination last year and he was plenty quick at NH. Remember this is a compromise and those with track specific gearboxes will have an advantage. I am also aware of those that have run LRP with a shortbox including myself a long time ago. Dan Grace ran a shortbox there last year and won two hotly contested races but he also ran the snot out of his engine. Afterward he stated he wasn't sure if he hurt it. With the old manifolds the rpms would peak around start finish and those with longboxes would then motor past with their ability to pull rpms further down the straight. The new manifolds may have changed that a little but you still need a motor capable of some very high rpms. LRP is a momemtum track and the best lap times are done by those that can sustain maximum throttle for the longest time. My recommendation is NOT to run a shortbox at LRP.
At NHMS a longbox with 1:22 3rd gear will let you race, but it will be a disadvantage in at least two low speed corners and lengthen acceleration time onto the main straight. In regional racing conditions you can hang onto a shortbox car with a longbox but making a pass stick isn't very likely. As others have pointed out a dedicated shortbox is the best choice for NH but not always the necessary choice depending on other needs.
Jim
Re: Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
I actually have both transaxles. I have a fresh new 1.26 long box, and a short box which came with my Zink. The short box was not built by anyone that would make it an “outstanding short box”.
I was hopping to just use the 1.26 long box; I didn’t know how possible or impossible NHMS would be. Based on the feedback, I guess if I had to use just one, the 1.26 long would work best.
Thanks
I was hopping to just use the 1.26 long box; I didn’t know how possible or impossible NHMS would be. Based on the feedback, I guess if I had to use just one, the 1.26 long would work best.
Thanks
Re: Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
I thought you sold your car and were getting out of the FV?Veefan wrote:I actually have both transaxles. I have a fresh new 1.26 long box, and a short box which came with my Zink. The short box was not built by anyone that would make it an “outstanding short box”.
I was hopping to just use the 1.26 long box; I didn’t know how possible or impossible NHMS would be. Based on the feedback, I guess if I had to use just one, the 1.26 long would work best.
Thanks
Mark
Mark Filip
NER #27
Womer EV-3
NER #27
Womer EV-3
Re: Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
Mark,
In order to stay married... I promised to sell some of my cars and parts before the new one arrived. (Not a Vee )
So the answer is Yes, I'm not sure if my "other car" will be ready for this year. Trying to take what’s left in parts and do a few races next year to keep my SCCA license. If I can't get a car together,,,, I might be calling Dick to rent.
FYI. If I can't stay on track and sell some stuff... and I do get divorced... I'll be living in a trailer & you might see me at Veefest in a Vortech, but don't worry, I’ll still be one of the back markers
In order to stay married... I promised to sell some of my cars and parts before the new one arrived. (Not a Vee )
So the answer is Yes, I'm not sure if my "other car" will be ready for this year. Trying to take what’s left in parts and do a few races next year to keep my SCCA license. If I can't get a car together,,,, I might be calling Dick to rent.
FYI. If I can't stay on track and sell some stuff... and I do get divorced... I'll be living in a trailer & you might see me at Veefest in a Vortech, but don't worry, I’ll still be one of the back markers
Re: Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
While we are on the subject, I have always used a long box at RA but seems like I heard some are useing the short, anything to this? Pros, cons?
Hal
D-13 88
Citation 88
Hal
D-13 88
Citation 88
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Re: Which is worse...Long Box Short Box??
No - no more talls and shorts - just short and a little shorter.....Rickydel wrote:Is there no longer the option of running taller rear tires?
Seems a short box at LRP with tall tires might be a decent compromise.
Unless you run rains....
Chrisz