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As a matter of curiosty, if you could only have one trans (or more honestly were too lazy or scared to swap back and forth) which would you choose - long box or short box. I'll be running at Road America (looong box track) and Blackhawk Farms (shortbox track I guess, 1.9 miles, lots of turns). I seem to recall that with "short" rear tires and a long box you can mimick a short box set up.

I'm about to pull the trigger on getting a long box, but before I spend that kind of $, thought I'd see if it's really necessary.

Thanks

Bob,
The simple answer is that you CAN run a race at a short box track with a long box. However, running a LONG box track with a short box is another deal altogether. My suggestion would be to go with the long box. If you can get short rears, you should be "OK" on a short box track - if not, then you can still run, and will probably have an advantage at the end of the longest straights. However, that would depend on the specific track.
Still - if only one box - and RA is one of your goals - I'd go with the long box.
Steve

Ok, without pulling out a calculator and doing the math myself, what is the difference between a long box with short rear tires and a short box with standard height rear tires? Like, could a Road America-destined long box car shod with short rear tires perform adequately at Blackhawk Farms? How far apart is the final drive ratio (maybe in inches per rotation) between the two?

There is no answer to this question if you live in an area with two local tracks that clearly require the different trannies. The best solution is to move away from the longbox track to an area that requires only a shortbox. This is probably 85+% of the the US and Canada.

Bob,

I started with only a long box because I knew I'd be running RA and Brainerd (as it was then) which both required the long box. I ran an MC school and couple races at Blackhawk with the long box and it worked up to a point. I borrowed some short rears and ran one race that way. It definitely was a gearing improvement, but the tires were pretty old and it was hard to tell about the handling difference. With good tires, it could probably be made to work fairly well. I bought a short box before the next year when I was going to be running Nationals at all three tracks.

The thing about Blackhawk is that it's a pretty short "short track". We pretty much all run short boxes with the large rears for the best rear grip, but a few years ago, one guy was quite fast using a short box and short rears. The track is about 2 seconds faster now than it was then because they completely repaved and widened it in places. Maybe this set-up wouldn't work as well any more.

Like Steve said, you can run any track if you have the long box in the car. You will be giving up something, but at least you can run. Running a short box at RA could cost you more in engine repair bills than the cost of the long box.

I will say that the change between short and long HAS kept me away from the track on occasion just to avoid doing the work. Once you get two complete set-ups, drum to drum, it's not that hard, it just takes a bunch of time.

Hey Greg, we like it here!

Around here (Cendiv), there seems to be three approaches to this quandary: 1) swap boxes between RA and BHF, 2) only run at BHF with a short box (no fun!), 3) build two cars, one with each box (this is the Mike Beaumia solution!). Or 4), you could run FST, then no choice is necessary.

I'm waiting for the 2010 CenDiv schedule before deciding whether to run the longbox or swap in the shortbox for the April 23rd Double Regional weekend. Whatever track follow the April event is what will determine what stays in the car. Then again, I don't really need to have the ultimate setup just to get back up to speed and go through the school weekend.

Another thought: If you can give up on RA for a while as you get seat time, you could run other short box tracks that aren't that far away: Gingerman, Grattan, and IRP aren't that bad to get to from Milwaukee. I would run Grattan all the time if it wasn't so darned far from the Twin Cities. You will love Grattan!

Thanks for all the thoughts. Guess I'll have to give it some more thought. The idea of staying away from RA is both appealing (it's a daunting track at this stage) and disappointing (it's RA for crying out loud!) but an option to consider. At least I have a few months to decide. I suppose the learning that would go into the swaps wouldn't hurt anything either, just more work.

Matt - two cars? really? not in my garage, unless of course I wanted to sleep out there with the cars becasue that would certianly be the result!

Seems like if you did the long box short tires, tall tires short box thing you could be investing in additional tires and wheels to make all the differnt combos work well. Come on Bob, it ain't that difficurlt to to switch back and forth between trannies, just take a lot of pictures and notes taking out and putting in. With a drum to drum set up on each box there is not really that much to it, and a good idea to learn this stuff as you go along anyway.


Hal
FV(s) 88

My I assume you do not have much track time in a FV? You have a standard Regional FV? Your engine is nothing special and your tire budget is limited? In general you are going to be way off the front runners pace and will have very little use for the tall box at any track. You will come off most turns a little slow and will be lucky to make it to the top of the rpm range by the end of the straight. A tall box will just put you off the cam even more. A weak engine just magnifies all these issues. A short box will also make it easier to recover your speed after the little mistakes you will be making.

Brian

Come on Bob, its not that much work. Ask Bruce, about 2 years ago I would do a gearbox change just about every race weekend.... at the track.... between qualifying and the race....

My point is once you learn the car and make things accessible and easy to work with, its not that much work... just the nature of the beast.

CenDiv20 wrote:Come on Bob, its not that much work. Ask Bruce, about 2 years ago I would do a gearbox change just about every race weekend.... at the track.... between qualifying and the race....

My point is once you learn the car and make things accessible and easy to work with, its not that much work... just the nature of the beast.

Bob - "I'm going to check the tire pressure"
Son-in-law - "what? you're a mechanical nin-com-poop - are you sure you can handle it?"
Bob - "yes - the guys on the Interchange said it was easy"
SIL - "for nornal people yes . . . "

Easy huh? ok

Brian makes some very good points. The first time I ran RA it was with a short box and I did fine. I backed off when I was in a draft and let the cars pull me. Managed a 4th place that first year. Without a draft, the engine will only pull so far in 4th and the likelyhood of an explosion is not high. I can't speak for Brainard, but RA is the only track I know of that requries a long box.

I'd always choose a short box. if there is a need, and you dont' want to change back and forth, there is a tall 4th gear but the split from 3rd will be greater. Long boxes are less common but can be had reasonably priced. Like Matt says, you could run FST and be DENIED the choice.